Talk:Guinan/archive
See Talk:Guinan/archive for archived discussions on this topic. On Grammer Could someone please work on the grammar??? This page clearly wasn't written by a native English speaker and, though informative, it's kind of a headache to read. Maybe I'll do it myself at some point, but it would be nice to have help/a head start from someone. :I'm not a native speaker of English indeed, but I tried to write it in my best possible English. I'm not aware of any grammer/spelling errors. If not too many, could you please point them out..? Ottens 21:14, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC) You spelled grammar incorrectly. categorization Should Guinan be categorized under Category:USS Enterprise (NCC-1701-E) personnel? I don't recall her on board the ''Enterprise''-E, only that in Star Trek Nemesis she was at the wedding. But I could be wrong. — THOR 01:22, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC) * She was never seen aboard the Enterprise-E. While she was present at the Riker/Troi wedding, this doesn't proof she was aboard the E. Ottens 19:58, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC) Featured article discussion (archived 6/21/05) * Guinan. (Self nomination). Heavily expanded over the past few days. Ottens 11:52, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC) **'Support'--Scimitar 16:24, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC) **'Support' AmdrBoltz 18:08, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC) **'Support' zsingaya 21:16, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC) **'Oppose' until concerns regarding excessive image use are resolved. -- Michael Warren | ''Talk'' 17:20, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC) ***'Support' - I reckon the number of images is better now. zsingaya 14:14, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC) **'Oppose' Until the article has been gone over by an editor; the grammar is atrocious, and the sentence structure not much better. -- Jim Schofield 2 Jul 2005 Featured article discussion (archived 7/24/05) Self nomination. Nomination was previously objected because there were far too many images on the page. That number has now been reduced to an acceptable figure for a medium-sized page. The page featured all available information on her history (with information from nearly all episodes she made a notable appearanced on) as well as an extensive "Personal relationships" section. Ottens 11:47, 14 Jul 2005 (UTC) *'Support'. It looks much better now. I've corrected a few of the spelling and grammatical errors. I also corrected the glaring error of Picard giving Guinan a bottle of Saurian brandy when it was in fact Aldebaran whiskey. I think that a bit can be added on Guinan attempting to teach Data about humour but other than that I think the article is easily worthy.--Scimitar 21:54, 14 Jul 2005 (UTC) *'Support' very complete well written. **I believe you have to be a signed up member of MA to vote for Featured Articles. - AJHalliwell 03:29, 16 Jul 2005 (UTC) *'Support' Well done, all! 1729 17:26, 17 Jul 2005 (UTC) *'Support' Tobyk777 17, July 2005 *'Hold', I ask for a postponement until a slight edit conflict can be addressed on the talk page. - AJHalliwell 23:10, 17 Jul 2005 (UTC) ::I suppose as my only problem with the page is the pictures, I'll Support the article, and the picture issue can be resolved after it's featured, or in process, but shouldn't affect the process. I support it for the content. - AJHalliwell 10:13, 20 Jul 2005 (UTC) ** Edit conflict resolved, save for slight dispute over image. This should be resolved on Images for deletion as I nominated the image AJHalliwell uploaded for deletion. Ottens 09:39, 20 Jul 2005 (UTC) * Contrary to the image issue, a picture of young Guinan from "Rascals" still does not appear on the page. --Alan del Beccio 05:46, 24 Jul 2005 (UTC) :*Not any more it doesn't. I added a picture of her as a child in the appropriate section.--Scimitar 07:59, 24 Jul 2005 (UTC) Re: Q In Deja Q, didn't Q have a line to the effect of, "She's a far more dangerous creature than you realize"? I don't recall the exact phrasing; but if I'm right, someone who does should probably add the quote to this article. :If my source is correct, the exact line is this; ::"This creature is not what she appears to be. She's an imp -- where she goes trouble always follows." :Think it should be added to the article?--Vercalos 07:36, 25 February 2006 (UTC) ::Yeah, I do. The character's nature is such a mystery, I think any comment from a being like Q that alludes to her true nature carries significance. I'll have to watch for the episode again, though -- I could have sworn he called her "dangerous." Maybe not. The quotation in question comes from Q_Who The "dangerous" quotation the original poster is asking about comes from Deja_Q, after Guinan stabs Q's hand in Ten Forward: "This is a dangerous creature. You have no idea... how could Picard allow her to join the crew and not me..." --Fastolfe 03:43, 15 October 2006 (UTC) Re: Q_Who- Which brings up the obvious question, if she is so helpful to the enterprise, what exactly does Q mean when he calls her an Imp? She obviously has powers capable of affecting Q for he flinches at the sight of her. Is she an Imp of the galaxy who has merely been charmed by the sweet music of federation culture, or is she specifically an Imp from the perspective of the Q who generally are unaccustomed to interference in their plans. Or perhaps she is just an Imp who serves a powerful deamon, Humanity. Conflict in sequence of events Picard dropped his foil and started toward her in concern. Suddenly Guinan was up and on him in a flurry of thrusts, and actually knocked the foil from his hand. Which was it? I don't have access to the episode... Renegade54 12:41, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC) :I don't either, but I think the former should be lowered his foil rather than dropped his foil. In fact, in a certain context, it probably is synonamous, rather like "He dropped his guard".--Vercalos 07:28, 25 February 2006 (UTC) ::Ahhhh, now *that* makes sense... thanks! -- Renegade54 07:36, 25 February 2006 (UTC) Is Guinan an Angel ? * Wise and very caring. * Powerful (she scares Q), but yet she prefers to help quietly. * She can tell when the Space-Time continuum is “wrong” * The way she talked about her “father” * She used to live in heaven * She almost always sports a halo. * Soren is a stereotypical “fallen angel,” and his name is almost Satan —MJBurrage 15:13, 26 April 2006 (UTC) : No, she's El-Aurian. --Jörg 15:26, 26 April 2006 (UTC) :: Right, but who are they? Maybe there all “angels.” What I was asking is, Do we know what Roddenberry based the character on, or what he originally planned to do with the character. Because the above list is kind odd and/or interesting if their just another alien. I can remember takling with friends back in the day about whether Guinan was Picard's gardian angel. —MJBurrage 18:41, 26 April 2006 (UTC) :::Those are interesting observations, but we need some kind of source to show intent. Jaf 18:45, 26 April 2006 (UTC)Jaf I believe that regardless of the cultural moral attitude that 20th century humans might have regarding her behavior and actions, that there is more evidence to support the claim that Roddenberry intended her to be, if anything, a galactic meddler... which I suppose is precisely how an atheist might describe both angelic and demonic forces. On this note the moment that I stand convinced that God sits on his Throne in Heaven which is conincidently the Nexus, is the day that I will be certain that this so called God of which people speak is in fact as evil as Q if not worse and must be stopped at all cost. And by the way, Soren sounds much more like Soren Kirekegard than Satan to me and he is one enlightenment philosopher whom the Catholic church would not readily label as evil. For what its worth... personally I see no conection between Soren and Soren unless it is in Roddenberry's insinuation that his Soren was once a very different person. And on a final note can we not at least agree that Roddenberry was the type of person who would be far more interested in the philosophies of liberation and the subsequent symbolic meaning of mythological creatures than in litteral/fundalmentalist relegious concepts? Oh, and if a question is followed by a period that can be used to indicate its rhetorical nature, for all those gramar Nazi's out there!?!?+/-infinium And in case you didn't notice Keroac killed, the comma, and, the paragraph:!: j/k As I am sure Roddenberry himself would say, that which we call language exists so deeply at the root of our perception of our existence that its modes and forms cannot so easily be replaced or destroyed. The DELTA Quadrant?! There's no evidence anywhere that Guinan's race, the El-Aurians, are from the Delta Quadrant. I've never even heard that conjecture before, but I suppose I know where it's coming from...Just because they had been assimilated by the Borg doesn't mean they were from the same quadrant as the Borg; the Borg had already expanded deep into the Beta Quadrant and possibly the Gamma Quadrant as well by the 23rd Century ("Q Who" established that much, and ''Voyager'' further made it clearer just how vast Borg territory really is). The only place where the Borg don't actually seem to have any territory is the Alpha Quadrant. The El-Aurian homeworld is more likely somewhere in the vicinity of System J-25, since Picard said that Guinan was "familar with this region of space." As stated by Data in "Q Who", System J-25 is only 7,000 light years away from the Federation, which would therefore place it in the Beta Quadrant (the Delta Quadrant is at its very closest more like 30,000 light years away). Furthermore, Guinan, Soran, and many other El-Aurians were fleeing the Borg in ''Generations'', and the ''Enterprise''-B was within range to intercept their transport ships when it was still in the Solar System. It takes decades to get from the Delta Quadrant to the Alpha Quadrant, even at high warp, unless of course you've got help from a time-travelling Admiral from the future. If the Borg attack on the El-Aurian planet had happened recently at the time of Generations, which "Q Who" would seem to indicate it had, there's no possible way they could have made it all the way from the Delta Quadrant in that short a period of time (unless they obtained a transwarp or quantum slipstream drive somehow, found a hitherto undiscovered wormhole, or used a Borg transwarp hub, all of which are even wilder and more unsubstantiated conjectures). I'm going to remove the assertion that Guinan is from the Delta Quadrant unless someone can bring up some concrete canonical evidence that that is the case. I won't say that she's from the Beta Quadrant, since people will undoubtedly argue with me about that too, but to say flat-out that she's from the Delta Quadrant is a bit too far fetched, IMO. And to think, people got on my case about the Fen Domar... --Antodav 01:23, 4 June 2006 (UTC) :Not that you need it, but just to add some further support to your claim, there is no information in the entry on El-Aurians that indicates them living in the Delta Quadrant, and you would think it would be more likely to be there than in the article on Guinan. --OuroborosCobra 01:33, 4 June 2006 (UTC) Guinan and Picard It's possible I missed it, but it seems this article does not mention Guinan's first meeting with Picard, in 1893. It mentions that she existed in Earth's nineteenth century, that she liked bald men because one was kind to her once, and her and Picard's unusual relationship. But it omits the circumstances of their first meeting, which seem to be noteworthy. Guinan "hiding" on Earth? The article makes two mentions of Guinan hiding from her father on Earth (TNG: "Time's Arrow"). I don't believe she suggests that she is hiding. She asks if her father had sent Data, and continues by asking him to go back and tell him that she isn't finished there. This suggests that her father knows why she is there. : I agree. the inference is there that she is simply there for her own curiosity. On a side note, please sign your posts. --''6/6'' ''Subspace'' 07:28, 15 November 2006 (UTC) Extra-temporal perception a feature of her species? Under Alternate Timelines, the article mentions that Guinan is aware of the changed timeline because her species has an intrinsic awareness of these sorts of things. This was never established as fact, however. Data merely speculated that this may be the case. (TNG: "Yesterday's Enterprise") :Agreed; it's equally likely that her experience with the Nexus gave her this perception. The sentence should be changed to reflect this uncertainty.